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    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2009
     
    Hello all,
    I have made some CAMS and tappets out of steel drill rod. Question I have is do you guys normally harden or case-hardened them or not?

    thanks
    kam
    • CommentAuthorgbritnell
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2009
     
    Hi Kam,
    I make my cams and lifters out of drill rod also. I don't harden the cams because of warpage problems but I do harden the lifters. With the hardened lifters running against the cam I haven't had any problems with wear.
    gbritnell
  1.  
    Kamran,

    Real life cams are case harden, but the are not made out of drill rod. Drill rod hardens all on its own then heat treated and quenched....ect.
    As I ahve understood it (correct me if I am wrong anybody) Case hardening is usually used to harden low carbon steel where only a thin layer of hardened material is needed, as in real life cams.

    gbritnell has a point, so it may be nessesary to grind after hardening..... or not go all out with the hardening.... have a lood at the hardening prosess for DR from your suppier.


    Jan
    • CommentAuthordavid
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    I have also made mine from drill rod, oil hardening type. Once I am ready to assemble I heat it to dull red and drop the parts in old oil. They turn black and are harder than the original rod. I have never had a part warp in the process. I am sure a better method exists. The black comes off were things touch but I have never seen any wear.

    My understanding is case hardening is used to make things like a hammer that are soft inside and hard outside so they don’t shatter on impact. As was said, if you start with tool steel just harden it.
    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    Thank you all. I have some extra cams that are not good so I play around with it today to see how it comes out
  2.  
    You can case harden low carbon steel, use kasenite, it works wonders.
    For tool steel, just check what you used, oil, water or air hardening, O1, A1, W1 ?
    You can use the "soft cam" if you harden the tappets /followers and wear will be more than satisfactory as long as there is some lubrication.
    Heat treating will distort some long skinny shafts specially camshafts if you are not careful while inserting the red hot piece into the quenching media, the part needs to enter the quenching media in a very perpendicular way to the oil surface and get it dunk as fast as possible with out dropping the piece in the bath.
    I' do my camshafts, machine blanks, grind the cams in the right place right angles ( not always) then harden, usually oil, O1 most cams are about 5 - 6 inches long, about 1/2 inch diameter stock. Have not had any one twist or distort yet.
    Have used Kasenite in the earlier camshafts, have two removed from my Sealion and they are very nice and no wear after about 5 years of the engine been run at shows and at home.
    Best of luck.
    Jaime.
  3.  
    As I recall Kamran you have machined individual lobes to be loctited on the shaft.... all you have to do is harden the lobes before pressing on the lobes. then you don't have to worry about distortion of the shaft.
    Just a though that struck me.

    jan
    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2009 edited
     
    Hi Jan,
    Yes this true. I was planning to harden the CAMs and then silver solder them to the shaft, but now that you mentioned loctite, do you think loctite is strong enough to hold the CAMs?
    I rather go with loctite since is easier

    Thanks
    • CommentAuthorgbritnell
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2009
     
    The original method behind making the lobes separately was to make the shaft, make the lobes, mount and index the lobes on the shaft, drill through the lobes and shaft for a pin, remove the lobes, harden the lobes, remount on the shaft and pin, dress off the pin and install the cam. I don't think loctite would be the most secure way of mounting the lobes. You could make the lobes a slip fit on the shaft (.0005 clearance) and loctite them until they were drilled. Kam, if you made lobes and hardened them and then silver soldered them you would essentially be annealing them when you got them hot enough for the silver solder to flow.
    gbritnell
    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2009
     
    Thanks for the comment gbritnell. So looks like I need to rethink this one. maybe I should only harden the cam followers and forget about hardening the CAM
  4.  
    Kamran........I use the assembled cams......I use water hardning drill rod, make the lobes to be a slip fit on the shaft....I then prick punch up the shaft at the center of the cam.....This lets me position the lobes where I want them to be, then I use the low temp. silver bearing solder and a good flux, then soft solder them to the shaft.....This keeps the shaft below the temp. where you would be changing the temper of the lobes.....I have been using the water hardning drill rod for lobes, and from looking at the cams , the lobes are still in the new condition.......Dale
  5.  
    Kamran,

    Loctite will be more than good enough to secure cam lobe on to the shaft, Do you subscribe to MEB, I worte an article on loctite there and it goes ito detail on proper fits and use. In modern machine shope Loctite is often used instead of keys/groove on spur gears in gear boxes and so on.
    Cams dont see to much torque any how, they just need to stay put. Loose press to "tight" slipp fit, a clean surface and the proper loctite product and your lobes will go nowhere until you want them to.
    Loctite is a VERY effective adhisive when used correctly, you will be surprised

    The other methods mentioned will also work of'couse, I use loctite where I can as it is easy and effective.

    Jan
  6.  
    issue #6..... forgot to mention than

    Jan
    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2009
     
    I have to agree with you on the Loctite. I have never used Loctite brand but I used JB Weld and that thing is very strong. On my Upshur engine I used JB welds to attach the CAM to the gear and I have over 40 hours on that engine and still holding strong. A few months back I used JB Weld to attach 2 pieces of aluminum rod together and then machine the part and JB weld was strong enough to hold the 2 pieces together during machining.
  7.  
    Kamran,

    JB Weld is a very good product as well, but very different from loctite.

    Jan
    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2009 edited
     
    Well I guess both are epoxy, but can tell some of the differences and when is good to use one vs another one?
  8.  
    Kamran:
    There is a nice write up of how to design, build and assemble a pieced camshaft in the construction notes of the Mastiff by Mason, they should provide a nice couple of ideas on how someone else has dealt with the issue and may provide some ideas on how to harden, assemble etc.
    I do not have your email, can you send me a note so I can reply and send you copies of section 17 - 20 of the construction articles.

    Cheers. - Loctite is good, as long as you use the right fit, right product and clean the joints very well before application.
    Jaime
    • CommentAuthorkamran
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2009
     
    Hi Jaime,
    That would be excellent.
    my email is kn592@yahoo.com